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So, when is it actually griefing?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 02:15:00 - [1] To the op, You surprise me as you are supposed to be a professional merc corp. The way I look at it is you were hired to war-dec a corp which you did. But you took it a stage further and decided to war-dec the people behind the characters by declaring a war-dec on another corp where they had alts. Which is making it kind of personal which could be seen as a kind of griefing.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 09:33:00 - [2] Originally by: Vabjekf But if someone does something that obviously does not benefit themselves at all its pretty clear they are just griefing. Lets look at what you just said there. A kid at school gets their dinner money taken by a school bully. So from your statement we can assume its not bullying/griefing because the bully benefits from it. Can you see why your statement is not right?
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 09:55:00 - [3] Originally by: rootimus maximus The CEO of Wiyrkomi Excavations should stop crying. According to his info, he has the title General of the armies. He should send some of those armies to deal with the corp that issued the wardec. Or change his title to something more suitable, like Pansy in Chief. Originally by: Forum Guy A kid at school gets their dinner money taken by a school bully. So from your statement we can assume its not bullying/griefing because the bully benefits from it. Can you see why your statement is not right? Either you're a troll, or you can't see the difference between RL and a PvP game. I know the difference alright, but I am also aware that there are real life people behind those characters.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Arthur Frayn The alt system allows players to keep happily playing while avoiding non-consensual pvp. If the alts are discovered, it's fair game. A lot of war-decs are declared on non-pvp corps, for essentially easy kills. Not all alts are linked in the way people make out in these threads. The only reason to hit on the alts is to try and keep a player locked up in a station and not playing the game. In your mind cutting off the supply which might not be the case anyway. Main reason a non-pvper would keep an alt seperate from the corp they were in, is because of war-decs. When a war-dec is declared they park that character in a station and use the alt. Which is completely fair, it might not give the result that the people war-dec'ing want (as they are after kill mails as well as) but it does put a character out of action for awhile.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Arthur Frayn "JimBob" has plenty of ingame tools at his disposal to avoid griefing on any of his characters. He can temporarily move to an NPC corp(the best way to protect oneself), Not everyone wants to keep jumping in and out of corps. Main reason for that is the employment record each character has. Their play style might change over the life time of their character and who wants a crappy employment record.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Darius Falc In low-sec this is a cut and dried case. If you're in low sec and you don't have the skills to protect yourself then anything that happens to you once or repeatedly is entirely your own fault. You were told it was unsafe before you jumped in and in your greater wisdom you still decided to do so. Which is why most people stay away from Low-sec and low-sec pirates complain they don't get enough to kill. Funny that!
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Darius Falc Originally by: Forum Guy Originally by: Darius Falc In low-sec this is a cut and dried case. If you're in low sec and you don't have the skills to protect yourself then anything that happens to you once or repeatedly is entirely your own fault. You were told it was unsafe before you jumped in and in your greater wisdom you still decided to do so. Which is why most people stay away from Low-sec and low-sec pirates complain they don't get enough to kill. Funny that! Er....I don't see a complaint? Was I complaining and just didn't realise it? Have you ever actually pirated in low sec? The EvE world has more than enough dumb people in it to satisfy even my lust to hear nice little pod squelching sounds. DF. Keep yor pirate hat on. The complain part was more to do with past threads.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Aunty Nora Quote: We don't go to null sec as it's a joke. We stay in high sec stopped reading here. Well spotted! Of course what he really means is that they can't compete in 0.0 so they stay in high-sec with the soft targets.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Forum Guy on 11/01/2011 14:43:20 Originally by: Draconyx Flat out the CEO was bluffing. If anything the CEO of the Corp should have kicked the Alts and been done with them. By leaving the Alts in his/her Corp they are condoning there actions. The targets were not random, and there was a reason behind the war dec. I see you would make a good CEO The way I see it, is, they were not getting much (if any) in the way of kill mails because the war-dec'd corp would not come out to play. So they war-dec'd another corp where the first corp had some alts. Just to try and get some more kill mails. If they are mercs they probably get a bonus on each kill mail although if I was paying them I would not pay for any kills in the second corp because I would have not contracted them to do so. As for refering to the second corp as an alt corp that's just bull. It's more likely it's just a corp with some alts in it like most other corps.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 15:21:00 - [10] Edited by: Forum Guy on 11/01/2011 15:24:30 Edited by: Forum Guy on 11/01/2011 15:22:25 It really comes down to this: Those that think that what the op did was the right course of action, would war-dec the person behind the character making all that person's characters legitimate targets. Whereas, those of use that think what the op did was questionable, would war-dec the character and not the person.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 15:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Taedrin The OP definitely offered several terms: he wanted an Orca and a Rattlesnake dead and on their killboard. As much as I am opposed to kill mail whoring, this is definitely not griefing. He certainly wanted that but not from the corp that he was contracted to war-dec.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Azelor Delaria Initially when we war decced the target corporation, the CEO of it promised to "stomp [us] into the dust". The target corporation then began a long, arduous campaign of making sure they were all docked when we wpould come by their home system of Kaaputenen, while spouting the usual carebear vitriol about how great they were at PvP in local while not actually undocking and proving it. When I found the alt corporation, I made sure that I published in local that a war dec was being voted on for it. The next day, they came out, popped a few of our ships (they had neutral RR, we didn't), and then stayed docked. Point was, we were able to do our job magnificently once we found them. :D Put in bold the important part of your quote. So you asked for peoples opinion and left out vital information. Now I don't know if to believe you at all, sounds now like you could just be trying to make your position more acceptable. Sounds to me like you are still worrying about griefing.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Azelor Delaria Originally by: Forum Guy Originally by: Aunty Nora Quote: We don't go to null sec as it's a joke. We stay in high sec stopped reading here. Well spotted! Of course what he really means is that they can't compete in 0.0 so they stay in high-sec with the soft targets. From the OP: Quote: We don't go to null sec as it's a joke. We stay in high sec and low sec, passing war decs, doing 1v1s outside Dodixie Moon 20 station (and before anyone says anything, they're legit. No RR or anything unless someone breaks the rules), and roaming low sec for pirates. Entirety of the text, including the portion you conveniently "forgot". No I did not forget it, just seemed a good way to add the main line of my post. Anyway have you really lived in 0.0 before? I always found 0.0 more interesting than high-sec.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Alexandra Delarge Edited by: Alexandra Delarge on 11/01/2011 17:46:32 Originally by: Selinate Wardeccing for no reason is, buy definition, not a legitimate strategy since it isn't a strategy at all... You must be new to Eve. You don't need a reason or a strategy to war dec someone. Everybody is free to dec anybody they want. You can declare war because someone has an ugly avatar, a silly name, support a different football team, prefer tea to coffee, etc etc etc. It's an internet spaceship game with a completely different set of rules to standard MMOs. Think you misunderstand what Selinate is getting at, it more to do with the lack of planning (strategy) required initially although the strategy could come after the decision on it's implementation.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 23:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Corporal Punishment08 Originally by: Forum Guy Originally by: Vabjekf But if someone does something that obviously does not benefit themselves at all its pretty clear they are just griefing. Lets look at what you just said there. A kid at school gets their dinner money taken by a school bully. So from your statement we can assume its not bullying/griefing because the bully benefits from it. Can you see why your statement is not right? What if the bully is poor and has no lunch money, and the kid he stole from was rich? didn't we all grow up on, and praise Robin Hood? Eat troll, eat. You must be hungry. yawn You're an idiot!
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 23:23:00 - [16] Originally by: GoBack 2WOW Did you come up with that name or did you mum help you? Why does everyone assume people are from WoW. News flash that's not the only other MMO around you know.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 23:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Corporal Punishment08 Originally by: Forum Guy Edited by: Forum Guy on 11/01/2011 23:31:45 Originally by: GoBack 2WOW Did you come up with that name or did your mum help you? Why does everyone assume people are from WoW. News flash that's not the only other MMO around you know. Oh so you're from some other lame MMO where everyone sits around and double fist-strokes eachother's epeens while dancing around in a field of flowers with rainbows in the background, where noone ever faces setbacks or hardships? Eat up poor troll. Your strength is getting low. If you really want to know, guess I could go back to the game I've played since 2005. But wait, no need I'm here already.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 23:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Forum Guy If you really want to know, guess I could go back to the game I've played since 2005. But wait, no need I'm here already. I'm surprised you stuck around so long given that you feel you have been griefed any time someone makes a move around you... Ok, how did you come to that conclusion? I don't feel griefed, have you even read the thread?
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Forum Guy Ok, how did you come to that conclusion? Because you were offended by someone by the name of goback towow posting a blank statement. I see you misunderstand (easily done as the medium is print), I'm not the sort of person that gets easily offended. As for the blank statement, the name was the statement.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Selinate Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Forum Guy Ok, how did you come to that conclusion? Because you were offended by someone by the name of goback towow posting a blank statement. is 2+2=5, also? Seems your logic and reasoning needs some work... You might want to set your forum alt as default so you do not make that mistake again. The logic is sound actually. ie: all ducks in the room quack when someone offends ducks - (Selinate quacks) - does this make Selinate a duck? y/n? Sorry, but you are wrong again, Selinate is not an alt of mine. This is my only alt.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Forum Guy I'm not the sort of person that gets easily offended. So what, someone sold you a navy ship and it turns out it wasn't navy after all. Now you are going to post being all mad and stuff going on a rampage to turn Eve into happy land MMO? Ok now you are just trolling, maybe you should think about writing fiction. But then again I see you do already.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Selinate Forum alt? Your logic is flawed again. Forum guy is not my alt. Nice try though. This is why you deny with both your characters to make sure that you try to cover it up completely. Nice try yourself. Originally by: Forum Guy Ok now you are just trolling, maybe you should think about writing fiction. But then again I see you do already. Seriously if you cant handle normal PVP in Eve and you think its griefing to the point where you will entertain an argument about greifing in Eve.... go back to WoW. I'm actually a purple 3 headed hydra, you won't believe the truth so you will probably believe that.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Selinate Apparently this one doesn't. That's why he specified "3 heads". If you want to make up something you should at least get somewhat educated on the topic. It's actually a many headed serpent, 9 heads depends what film you watch or drawing you have seen. After all how do you portray a many headed serpent with out quantifying it.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 00:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Forum Guy on 12/01/2011 00:51:15 Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Forum Guy It's actually a many headed serpent, 9 heads depends what film you watch or drawing you have seen. After all how do you portray a many headed serpent with out quantifying it. No THE hydra, the one that Hercules killed, had 9 heads. You really shouldn't dismember mythology like that. Like I said it's a many headed hydra they can't illustrate a many headed hydra without giving it a quantity. It could just as easily have been 8 or 10. Maybe 9 was just more aesthetically pleasing.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.12 01:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Forum Guy Originally by: Taedrin The OP definitely offered several terms: he wanted an Orca and a Rattlesnake dead and on their killboard. As much as I am opposed to kill mail whoring, this is definitely not griefing. He certainly wanted that but not from the corp that he was contracted to war-dec. I hate to be late, but I was at class all afternoon. Whether or not you were hired to wardec someone is irrelevant to the argument. If it were relevant, then it would only imply that the "blame" would pass from the corporation conducting the wardec to the person who hired them. It would not change the "ethicality" of the wardec itself. Thus being hired to wardec a corporation or doing so "for no reason" has nothing to do with offering them terms of surrender, and does not change the fact that offering terms of surrender gives the victim a "way out". Even if these terms are impossible, the corporation can disband and the members go back to an NPC corp. Ok took me little while to see where you were coming from in response to my comment. I should have made it clearer, I was refering to the Orca and Rattlesnake not the terms offered.

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